Answers to Seiko J or K models

[chriscentro]

For your reading pleasure

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f21/where- ... 84156.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An extract from the post in WUS, (other models are mentioned too):

SKX007 K = Raw Parts made mainly in China, Made in Malaysia, Robots Assembled, Oversight from Malaysian Technicians
SKX007 J = Raw Parts made mainly in China, Made in Malaysia, Robots Assembled Oversight from Japanese Technicians (which allows the J version to be labeled as Made in Japan)

roo7: The source of this information is not verified for authenticity.

[ronnietts]

Very insightful and educational...Thanks for the info

[galaxy_convoy]

Regardless, I believe the "Made in Japan" label is worth the premium to many people.


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[balzebub71]

Doesn't mean anything to me..all along feel that J models are same as K models. But if u look at the post, it claims the 8L35 isn't made in Japan nor by hand...

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[sinistral]

Doesn't bother me as well, because at the end it's a Seiko watch.

[doinkydoink]

Good info. Thanks for sharing

Sorry for the typos..am using auto correction.

[roo7]

Interesting topic. Gonna quote it here before it get's removed from the face of the inter web.

But the source of this information is not verified for authenticity.

Quoted from: http://forums.watchuseek.com/f21/where- ... 84156.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

About a year ago I became interested in purchasing my first really high end diving watch and began researching many of the better known brands. That lead me to look into the construction of the Spring Drive movement a few months later, and I sent some detailed questions to Seiko, not really expecting to hear back. But, low and behold, a few days later, a female engineer who works for Seiko named Keiko Matsumoto sent me some replies and we kind of struck up a correspondence. (we are both university trained engineers and we both spent some of our education at Tokyo University) In the past seven months or so, I have occasionally received valuable insight from her about not only Seiko products but also watchmaking and their industrial manufacture in general. Because of a thread asking about the SKX007 J and K versions a few days back, I decided to email her to get the low down. She said she could not comment but directed me to a Seiko executive who she said might be helpful. I emailed the guy and this is what he sent back (although, he asked not to be named):

".....due to the nature of customs and labor laws in Japan, products are generally allowed to be stamped with Made in Japan if they are produced outside the national boundaries as long as they are manufactured in a wholly owned Japanese firm where the work is overseen by Japanese nationals. Generally speaking, watches priced below about 90000 yen (currently $838 US dollars) do not contain enough profit margin to be made in Japan. This is not just for Seiko, but for all major Japanese manufacturers. Watches priced roughly from 90000 to 250000 yen (currently $838 to 2328 US dollars) are often finished or with final assembly done in Japan and higher end watches above this point are often fully assembled in Japan. ....."

He then went on to talk about a few other sales points, but then he included a 2013 list for me of where well known Seiko divers are made. Here is the list by price range:

(RP - Raw Parts, MIM= Made in Malaysia, MIC = Made in China, MIJ = Made in Japan, RA = Robot Assembly, HA = Hybrid Assembly (robot and human), HuA - Human Assembly)

Generally Seiko divers and many other models less than about $175 dollars are made of raw parts from China, with assembly done by robots in Malaysia and are overseen by Malaysian technicians.

SKX007 K = Raw Parts made mainly in China, MIM, RA, Oversight from Malaysian Technicians
SKX007 J = Raw Parts made mainly in China, MIM, RA, Oversight from Japanese Technicians (which allows the J version to be labeled as Made in Japan)

SBDC001 (Sumo) -almost all Sumo versions - Raw Parts made mainly in China, MIM, RA, Oversight from Japanese Technicians on assembly line

SNM031, 033, etc... (Samurai) - Raw Parts mainly from China, MIM, RA, Oversight from Japanese Technicians

SBDC007 (Shogun) - Raw Parts from mainly China, Titanium case machined and finished in Malaysia, MIM, HA, with final oversight done in Japan by human hands

MarineMaster

SBDX001 (MarineMaster 300m) - Raw Parts mainly from Japan and Malaysia, MIM, RA with final oversight by Japanese technicians in Japan (bet this will surprise many as the 8L35 in this watch is robot assembled)

SBDB001 (MarineMaster 600m Titanium) - Spring Drive made in Japan, MIJ, HuA with all assembly overseen by Japanese technicians in Japan

MarineMaster Tuna

SBBN017 - Quartz movement made in Malaysia, MIM, HA with final inspection by Japanese technicians

SBBN015 - Same as SBBN017

SBBN013 - Quartz movement made in Malaysia, MIJ, HuA with all assembly done by Japanese technicians in Japan

(The list also mentions a few other quartz 1000m resistant models. These models all seem to be fully made in Japan by human hands)

SBDX011 - Raw Parts from Japan and Malaysia, MIM, HA with final oversight by Japanese technicians in Japan

SBDB009 - Raw Parts from Japan and Malaysia, Spring Drive made in Japan, MIJ, HuA with all assembly overseen by Japanese technicians in Japan

Grand Seiko

Almost all the Grand Seikos are made from Japanese or Malaysia parts, although some of the quartz movements are made in Malaysia. They are all assembled in Japan by Japanese technicians. Most are hand assembled. The models which receive the most attention are the Hi-Beat models and next are the Spring Drive models.

And the funny thing was, after I received this juicy tidbit, I got another email a few hours later, saying "The previous listing is from production records in the past and does not reflect current Seiko manufacturing standards". The executive even apologized for sending me incorrect information and when I asked him for updated info, he said that he probably could not comment. And I have not heard back since then.

Maybe his accidental release of "old records" will help solve a few WUS Seiko questions. You decide.

[pyu]

Thanks for the informative read. Not surprised that most of the watches that Seiko make are produced by machines - there nothing inherently superior about a human craftsman compared to an assembly line.

[chriscentro]

I visited a local watch shop recently (must try to remember where it was), the shop has a home-made poster stating that J models are made in Japan and K model is not. I dare not take a picture of it at that moment...must try to remember which shop, getting old....

[stepper78]

Actually I like k ones.

The "21 Jewels" on the dial not my cup of tea.

sent from .......

[ronnie]

SKX007 K = Raw Parts made mainly in China, Made in Malaysia, Robots Assembled, Oversight from Malaysian Technicians
SKX007 J = Raw Parts made mainly in China, Made in Malaysia, Robots Assembled Oversight from Japanese Technicians (which allows the J version to be labeled as Made in Japan)

Am I correct to say that the statement :

"Robots Assembled Oversight from Japanese Technicians" means the parts, which are made in China or/and Malaysia, are assembled in Japan...?

[Ed.YEO]

I visited a local watch shop recently (must try to remember where it was), the shop has a home-made poster stating that J models are made in Japan and K model is not. I dare not take a picture of it at that moment...must try to remember which shop, getting old....

"GIFT of TIME" @ both Bencoolen & Plaza Sing.

[chriscentro]

I visited a local watch shop recently (must try to remember where it was), the shop has a home-made poster stating that J models are made in Japan and K model is not. I dare not take a picture of it at that moment...must try to remember which shop, getting old....

"GIFT of TIME" @ both Bencoolen & Plaza Sing.

Thanks for refreshing my memory, saw it at Bencoolen!

[seiko siao]

I visited a local watch shop recently (must try to remember where it was), the shop has a home-made poster stating that J models are made in Japan and K model is not. I dare not take a picture of it at that moment...must try to remember which shop, getting old....

at bencoolen?i saw a shop with such a poster too....the shop is near the empty security counter inside the mall.

[roo7]

SKX007 K = Raw Parts made mainly in China, Made in Malaysia, Robots Assembled, Oversight from Malaysian Technicians
SKX007 J = Raw Parts made mainly in China, Made in Malaysia, Robots Assembled Oversight from Japanese Technicians (which allows the J version to be labeled as Made in Japan)

Am I correct to say that the statement :

"Robots Assembled Oversight from Japanese Technicians" means the parts, which are made in China or/and Malaysia, are assembled in Japan...?

I think what it meant is, assembled by robots in Malaysia with parts from China, overseeing by Japanese Technicians, allowed to be labeled as Made In Japan.

[roo7]

Again, the source of this information is not verified for authenticity, it's just really BTW FYI kinda of thing. Regardless J or K, just enjoy your Seiko..

[maxxevv]

The lower to mid range Seiko movements are in JB. Assembly wise, presumably there too. Perhaps not the hi-beat ones like the 6r21, 6r24 and up ( But I can't say for sure as never was privy to such information except the manufacture portion as a vendor of mine also supplies service components for their machines that make the movement parts) .

Seiko as far as I know, even for those assembled and made in China watches / sub-brands ( such as " Wired" ) do not make any of their movements/ movement parts in China. The movements are all assembled elsewhere such as Malaysia and Japan before being assembled into complete watches in China.

I think they had some good foresight on intellectual property issues in China, thus kept things this way.

[balzebub71]

I think we place too much emphasis on where a watch is made and by robots or hand. I mean I would rather trust a computer controlled precision robot then a human, even surgery, robot aided has higher chance of success than 100% human surgeon only, hence I am confident that the quality of machine made parts and watches are of good quality. What matters to me is the quality control standards...high QC will reduce the chance of consumers like us receiving a flawed watch. Every watch regardless of Japanese, Swiss or German is mostly robot/computer made with as little human intervention as possible from affordable all the way to mid tier luxury watches. Omega, Rolex and Panerai are all highly automated and their watches cost thousands or tens of thousands of dollars. So I really don't understand why this topic was so hotly discussed on WUS?

Only thing I would like of course will be for watch brands to be more transparent about such things, this applies to them all regardless of country of origin.

I believe as the years roll on, low end and mid tier watches will become increasingly machine made...if the sistem51 can be robot machine regulated to +/-5s per day (which was how mine was running while I had it), why can't Seiko do the same for their lower tier movements?

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[roo7]

Yes, exactly, I find they are really over reacting.

They can always buy a Vostok: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-JMoUoMtXo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[king01sg]

even iphone is make in china, except the samsung and LG are in korea.
so what seiko make in other countrys beside japan?
no big deal, just enjoy it!