Seiko SBDC007 Shogun (a review?)

[seizure]

i've not been online for so long, in part due to my last purchase of the SBDC007... it seems the shogun isn't as popular as it should be. so here's a quick "review" based on my candid opinions... with pics to come - when i can find a decent camera! i hope if anyone's on the fence about this watch that they can jump onto the right side.

before we start, here is a good review and a video (both not made by me):

http://monochrome-watches.com/one-lunar ... 07-review/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LRrvE1Zfzo

the first time i even heard about the shogun was before it was called the shogun. the first few pictures of the SBDC007 i saw on the internet in 2009, during a late night at work in a city more than 12 hours away from singapore. my impressions then was mixed - the hands did not appeal to me as they are identical to the monster's but the case and bracelet looked wonderful. if it was only 25-50% more than the sumo, i would probably have ordered one.

at that time i had owned a sumo once, which i sold some months later as i couldn't get used to the lug width and weight. i would eventually buy the sumo 2 more times before giving up on it (trying all 3 colours).

from time to time, the shogun could be found from time to time on US watch forums for close to US$600 (the cheapest i had seen). i still didn't bite. the last sumo i bought came with a 6R15C (which i didn't know at the time because it had a metal back) and i was quite impressed with its accuracy out of the box and happy the date alignment issue had finally been fixed. after some googling, i also learned that the stuck hairspring issue has also been fixed (it happened a few times to my father's 6R15B dress watch despite being serviced once in warranty and once more 2 years from date of purchase because of weird timing issues- he stopped wearing it because it did not seem reliable enough for his hectic and busy lifestyle).

finally, while on a work trip last year to japan, i walked into BIC camera and saw the shogun in real life for the first time. it looked so familiar yet refreshingly new. the sales assistant took out the sumo and shogun and placed them side by side. immediately i remembered why i have bought and sold the sumo three times and told him to put it back and bring out the mm300 instead - and quickly mentioned i did not have enough cash that day to buy so i was only browsing.

side by side, the mm300 and shogun looked equally pleasing to the eye. the monster hands did not detract so much in real life - in fact i didn't even think about it as i spent 3-5 minutes comparing the two watches. i left, and started to figure out ways i can get enough japanese yen without incurring hefty cash advance fees. in the end, i was so busy with work that i totally forgot about it.

fortunately i was to visit japan 2 more times for work that year, but forgot about budgeting for the shogun on my second trip. i almost wanted to use my credit card to pay but realized there was no additional discount for amex - the card i use most often when i travel (i didn't bring any back up cards as i didn't bother activating overseas use). "nevermind - next time!" i said.

soon before my third trip, watch forums everywhere started to whisper that the shogun has been discontinued and people visiting japan have been unable to find any in stores and the usual online sellers also don't know when it will be restocked. panic! had i missed the boat? i hit every yodobashi and BIC within a reasonable traveling distance based on inventory information the sales assistants gave me, but i wasn't able to find one successfully.

i got quite bummed out and decided not to waste my time and money travelling to find this watch anymore. i hit the pretty city of kanazawa for some R&R with my wife and chanced upon an old shop that seemed to sell used watches. it turned out the store sold brand new watches, just that the ones on their window display has been displayed for a very long time. among a selection of very expensive watches they had one shogun on display. i was quietly happy but also immediately worried that the watch will not have the 6R15C... and i forgot how to calculate the serial number to give me production dates. worse... i also didn't know when the 6R15C started being put into watches.

by purely using "best guess" i decided to take a chance on the watch and bought it with only a nominal discount. i wasn't at peace until i got back to my computer later that day and googled for similarly dated SARB watches and was glad to see they (and watches produced earlier than mine) all had 6R15Cs.

up to that point, my daily beater had been an explorer 2 (outside singapore) or a 114060 sub (in singapore). among others, those were the 2 watches that i wore most frequently, as they replaced my 2-in-1 bond seamaster GMT. little did i know the shogun would knock them both out of rotation...

i had also sold my SBQJ015 about 4 years before getting the shogun (while i was working in a really rough neighbourhood with a lot of crime), so i knew the powers and wonders of diashield titanium. what i didn't like about the SBQJ015 was the lack of a screw down crown - but this also meant i won't strip the tube as seikos don't have service-replaceable tubes. nevertheless, i was always worried about water getting into the watch if the crown accidentally got pulled out... i regret selling the watch though - i sold it because i wanted something more durable and "tough". but the spirit never felt light despite being titanium, probably because of the quartz movement, big battery and sapphire crystal. it felt just right.

i've had owned the MM300 once before, when they were first released. mine had problems with the movement. i was also always acutely aware that the tube was not replaceable and extremely careful to back-thread the crown. i sold it off in the end not only because of the movement or tube, but because i did not like how the watch felt/sat on my wrist and how it looked back at me. i can never figure out why tudor can make a 10.5mm thick hydronaut that is WR to 200m but seiko can't...

my thought process for buying the shogun after i first finished examining the watch was simple - if the MM300 and shogun both cost the same, which one would i buy? (i mentally priced them both at USD$1,250 for that exercise because i sold my MM300 for about $1,250 many years ago) the shogun won very quickly and easily - probably because of my past experience with the MM300.

i didn't start wearing the shogun regularly until a month after i got the watch because... because the watch too light. compared to what i was used to, it was absolutely light weight. the head itself is not light, but the bracelet felt very very light. much lighter than what it felt like before with my seiko quartz spirit... it was not physically uncomfortably light. the watch is extremely comfortable. it was just mentally uncomfortably(scarily?) light. so what did i do? two things.

1. i bought a seiko steel racheting clasp.

2. while the clasp was on the way, i wore a titanium watch my wife "borrowed" from me.

by the time the clasp arrived 3 days later, i was ready to see if the shogun will finally work... i installed the clasp late that night and told myself i must wear it for at least 3 days.

after the first night, i no longer wanted to take it off.

when my hands are by my side, the steel clasp balances the watch head wonderfully. at all other times, the watch is extremely comfortable. in fact, many times i made myself put on my other (steel) watches, and within 15 minutes i had taken them off to put the shogun back because i now find them too heavy.

the need for a second time zone is no longer a big issue because my wife (then my gf when i was working overseas) now travels with me wherever i go. i'm also much older now so it's much less important to track my parents' timezone. it's a seiko so no one will really want to rob me. it's got 6R15C and diashield so... it's bullet proof! it is not a heavy steel watch. it is not a monster. it is not a sumo. it is not an MM300. which are some of the main reasons why i like it so much.

okay, what's wrong with the watch? the racheting seiko clasp is uncomfortable, but i fixed it within 5 minutes under a running tap with a small (1 inch by 1 inch) piece of 3M 600 grit sand paper. the clasp is NOT a work of magic like the rolex adjustable clasp, but it... it kinda works. and it kinda works for a lot less money than a rolex. the clasp, although shorter than the original, adds a few cm (that's a few cm too many) to the thickness of the original clasp. unlike the original clasp, it is not diashield coated so it is not scratch resistant. on hindsight, i think i should have just stuck with the original clasp and kept wearing the watch and not wasted my money.

the end links have a noticeable gap between itself and the first row of bracelet links when my hands are typing on the keyboard. at all other times i don't notice the gap much - and this is really extreme nitpicking. do i wish it came with screwed links? yes. but more expensive seiko divers don't have screwed links either... and my bond seamaster also uses pin and collars... probably because pins and collars don't fail when properly installed, whereas i have to check and tighten all the screws on my explorer 2 every 9-12 months because the screws don't have loctite.

there is nothing else wrong with this watch. it wears like a 42mm watch. it's not too thick (the problem of a thick and heavy mm300 head and thin bracelet is not replicated here). the back is comfortable on the skin. the bracelet is very comfortable. there are not uncomfortable edges anywhere that cuts or pokes into my flesh. the monster hands are actually quite appealing after the first day. unlike the sumo and mm300 (in my experience), there are no gaps between the bracelet and the lugs/watch head. i won't go as far to say as the case and bracelet were hand polished as they most certainly were done by robots in a factory... but there are enough angles, brushed and shiny bits on the watch head, interesting hands and dial to keep most watch fanatics captivated for a decently long amount of time. for me, this is a watch i will not be selling even come the day that i get bored with it. i've had it for a year now and wear it almost day and night, in japan, sri lanka, vietnam, singapore, NYC... and more.

the only time it has come off my wrist was when i had to wear a dress watch... for no more than 9 hours in total, i think. i wear it in my sleep and in the shower. the clasp is not wearing as well as the diashield, so i might just have to rebrush it with sandpaper. when i first got this watch, it was supposed to be my scuba diving trip watch, not a daily wearer. before buying it, i was skeptical when i read about how a normal seiko (no spring drive, not grand seiko) watch can overwhelm so suddenly and unexpectedly...

amendments:

allow me to make a few remarks to my original post...

the "longer" clasp that came with the shogun... is longer only on the outer clasp portion where the micro adjustments take place (the holes for the spring bar) and the shogun's external dive extention also adds a little length to the entire clasp. the inner blade that directly contacts the bottom of your wrist is similar in length for both. so this means the seiko racheting clasp needs about 1-2 more links than the original clasp because both have the same number of adjustment holes.

i really appreciate that the bracelet does not look like a direct copy of the rolex oyster design. besides a difference in shape of each link, the middle row is raised sufficiently to create a distinctly different look. included in the box, which is identical to the mm300 box, is a nice synthetic straight vent rubber strap that has metal keepers. looks nice and reminds me of the citizen promaster and GS rubber strap. i've not used it before but i assume it's not very comfortable...

despite the tapered lugs, the watch head looks good on nato / 22x22mm straps or 22x20mm / 22x18mm straps - probably because the angular cuts on the crown guards and lugs. i've not removed the bracelet though because i like it most on bracelet although i assume it works wonderfully on nato because of the light weight. off the wrist the bracelet sounds like a folded-link bracelet. thick and long spring bars are a wonderful idea and i think strap fans will appreciate drilled lugs.

the original crystal is slightly domed. hardlex vs sapphire - not a big problem for as hardlex should be cheaper to replace. sapphire is also probably heavier. i have no preference for crystals in the shogun - even acrylic is fine.

the hour markers are slightly smaller than the sumo's markers but they are not so small that it becomes a problem - i think the sumo has thicker hands, so the markers on the shogun appear just nice with the rocketship hands. the hands in normal bright lighting conditions look to be a slghtly different colour from the hour markers. i like the matte dial.

i don't like the lume pip on the bezel insert though - it sits too recessed into the bezel itself. i would like it flushed with the insert's surface so dirt doesn't get trapped. the insert itself and bezel action is nothing special and works well - i like the bullet shaped quarter hour markers and font. i like that all the minutes are indicated, unlike many other dive watches that miss out 2 minute markers per quarter hour.

i would also have preferred a black date wheel although white is not "out of the ordinary" for many dive watches with black dials.

because i bring this watch on diving trips, i do not intend to mod it - i really don't want the increased risk of flooding. overall, with the price and sumo and mm300 in mind, i rate the shoguh 9/10.

i guess what i'm saying is... this watch is worth the money. and unless you get one to wear for at least a few days, you won't think it's worth 2 sumos. this is a watch where photos or videos don't do it justice. even an hour at BIC camera won't do. you must wear it for a whole sunday to be able to at least appreciate it for what it is... and understand what it is not. to be sure, it is NOT a swiss watch made entirely in geneva and i find it difficult to compare this to any other watch out there (pelagos? certina titanium ISO diver come quickly to mind but also get dismissed as quickly)

i feel it is better than the MM300 because for the same price i can buy two low-beat shoguns so i can "afford" to have the first one break... in perhaps 25 years' time.

until then, i can wear the shogun exactly how seiko wanted the mm300 to be worn: without care but plenty of affection and confidence (in the watch's ability).

[lunarin79]

an awesome review on the Shogun bro and..

welcome to the forum

[KKFA]

Great review. I agree that the shogun is very under rated. They seem to be resurrected as there has been a few being sold at Big Time (I think they still have one) and even at Seiko Jem (if you have a thicker wallet). Enjoy the watch. I do. Cheers.

[Andoy]

.....i got quite bummed out and decided not to waste my time and money travelling to find this watch anymore. i hit the pretty city of kanazawa for some R&R with my wife and chanced upon an old shop that seemed to sell used watches. it turned out the store sold brand new watches, just that the ones on their window display has been displayed for a very long time. among a selection of very expensive watches they had one shogun on display. i was quietly happy but also immediately worried that the watch will not have the 6R15C... and i forgot how to calculate the serial number to give me production dates. worse... i also didn't know when the 6R15C started being put into watches.....

Welcome to the forum Bro.

See if this works:
http://www.csce.uark.edu/~jgauch/photos/seiko/

Hope it helps.

Cheers.

[seizure]

allow me to make a few remarks to my original post...

the "longer" clasp that came with the shogun... is longer only on the outer clasp portion where the micro adjustments take place (the holes for the spring bar) and the shogun's external dive extention also adds a little length to the entire clasp. the inner blade that directly contacts the bottom of your wrist is similar in length for both. so this means the seiko racheting clasp needs about 1-2 more links than the original clasp because both have the same number of adjustment holes.

i really appreciate that the bracelet does not look like a direct copy of the rolex oyster design. besides a difference in shape of each link, the middle row is raised sufficiently to create a distinctly different look. included in the box, which is identical to the mm300 box, is a nice synthetic straight vent rubber strap that has metal keepers. looks nice and reminds me of the citizen promaster and GS rubber strap. i've not used it before but i assume it's not very comfortable...

despite the tapered lugs, the watch head looks good on nato / 22x22mm straps or 22x20mm / 22x18mm straps - probably because the angular cuts on the crown guards and lugs. i've not removed the bracelet though because i like it most on bracelet although i assume it works wonderfully on nato because of the light weight. off the wrist the bracelet sounds like a folded-link bracelet. thick and long spring bars are a wonderful idea and i think strap fans will appreciate drilled lugs.

the original crystal is slightly domed. hardlex vs sapphire - not a big problem for as hardlex should be cheaper to replace. sapphire is also probably heavier. i have no preference for crystals in the shogun - even acrylic is fine.

the hour markers are slightly smaller than the sumo's markers but they are not so small that it becomes a problem - i think the sumo has thicker hands, so the markers on the shogun appear just nice with the rocketship hands. the hands in normal bright lighting conditions look to be a slghtly different colour from the hour markers. i like the matte dial.

i don't like the lume pip on the bezel insert though - it sits too recessed into the bezel itself. i would like it flushed with the insert's surface so dirt doesn't get trapped. the insert itself and bezel action is nothing special and works well - i like the bullet shaped quarter hour markers and font. i like that all the minutes are indicated, unlike many other dive watches that miss out 2 minute markers per quarter hour.

i would also have preferred a black date wheel although white is not "out of the ordinary" for many dive watches with black dials.

because i bring this watch on diving trips, i do not intend to mod it - i really don't want the increased risk of flooding. overall, with the price and sumo and mm300 in mind, i rate the shoguh 9/10.

this concludes my review!

[Becky]

Very good review and story of your journey towards buying this piece from seiko.

Not many watches from seiko amongst it's many model that comes in titanium making it light weight.

Wear it with good health!

[pyu]

As someone who bought a Shogun after much deliberation, I smiled when I saw this review because I am now in the same situation as the OP. The Shogun is very comfortable on my wrist and it gets all of my wrist time, displacing my Steinhart 47mm Nav-B Chrono.

[Seiko'ed]

Sorry for digging up a back dated thread but felt it does justice for the Shogun..and worth incurring the wrath..hehe
Thoroughly enjoyed the write up. Could share many of the sentiments described as myself had almost took the leap of faith but retracted..Signzz
Inspired once again to start on my new journey : ) Thank you

[balzebub71]

Shogun...yeah...I am on the lookout for one

[KKFA]

I think big time still have one. If not go Japan, my friend got one a couple hundred cheaper then local. Happy hunting one watch man

[balzebub71]

Crap... I am still a more than one watch man... Yah getting my friend to look out for one for me on her next trip to Tokyo.. Any recommended place there ?

[KKFA]

Sorry but I think there are recommended places listed in the travel section. I shared these with a friend of who was in Japan in March. All I know is that he paid about 1k sgd. Happy hunting my friend.